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In response to: Wed Sept 15 - Get involved in Mass Direct Action against Climate Crime - 10/10/10 Dig In!
Chris [Visitor]
10/10/10 is the Victoria Marathon. Why not encourage runners to wear a common message on their shirts.
Permalink 09/09/10 @ 21:36 In response to: $1 Billion G20 Brutality - Canada's Shame
SEO é—œéµå—行銷 [Visitor] · http://seomax.sg1004.myweb.hinet.net/
woot, thankyou! I finally came to a site where the webmaster knows what they're talking about. Do you know how many results are in Google when I search.. too many! It's so annoying having to go from page after page after page, wasting my day away with thousands of people just copying eachother's articles... bah. Anyway, thankyou very much for the info anyway, much appreciated.
Permalink 09/09/10 @ 12:33 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
edoherty [Member]
Thanks voony,
I like this quote from your post:
"Interestingly enough, according to the Nantes transit agency, their BRT records a rate of accident twice less than their trams, though their buses go faster [9]. It is eventually due to a better designed right of way for the bus than for the trams"
Or maybe it is because the buses can steer, and rail vehicles can only brake? This is one of the major advantages of buses, and the reason I am suspicious of the idea of at-grade guided bus.
By the way, none of the information you provide in your post suggests that surface rapid transit makes life on the street more dangerous overall. But that is harder to study - often what gets reported is what there is data available for not what matters.
I like this quote from your post:
"Interestingly enough, according to the Nantes transit agency, their BRT records a rate of accident twice less than their trams, though their buses go faster [9]. It is eventually due to a better designed right of way for the bus than for the trams"
Or maybe it is because the buses can steer, and rail vehicles can only brake? This is one of the major advantages of buses, and the reason I am suspicious of the idea of at-grade guided bus.
By the way, none of the information you provide in your post suggests that surface rapid transit makes life on the street more dangerous overall. But that is harder to study - often what gets reported is what there is data available for not what matters.
Permalink 09/09/10 @ 12:22 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
voony [Visitor] · http://voony.wordpress.com/
The safety issue can't be ignored, and
grade separated transit are order of magnitude safer than LRT:
see
http://voony.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/subway-and-lrt-safety-in-france/
Now, that is one part of the story, Eric is right to mention that road are source of major safety issue,
and one argument need to be balanced with the other one.
At the end, you will notice from my post, that the pedestrian and cyclist pay a very heavy toll to the LRT in France:
that says that the seductive idea of LRT sharing space with other mode, especially "soft" ones and rapid transit are quite incompatible
grade separated transit are order of magnitude safer than LRT:
see
http://voony.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/subway-and-lrt-safety-in-france/
Now, that is one part of the story, Eric is right to mention that road are source of major safety issue,
and one argument need to be balanced with the other one.
At the end, you will notice from my post, that the pedestrian and cyclist pay a very heavy toll to the LRT in France:
that says that the seductive idea of LRT sharing space with other mode, especially "soft" ones and rapid transit are quite incompatible
Permalink 09/08/10 @ 20:25 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
NicS [Member]
Robert, I would agree with you that the families of people killed by Skytrain here in Vancouver or the LRT in Calgary would find any solace in us discussing such moot points.
Permalink 09/08/10 @ 14:46 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
Robert in Calgary [Visitor]
Eric, I certainly support more LRT for Calgary.
I don't ignore the fact that here in low density Calgary, our LRT does have... deadly numbers that, Skytrain for example, doesn't.
Would you be surprised that the families of people killed here in Calgary would find little solace in your assessment that it doesn't hold much water?
I don't ignore the fact that here in low density Calgary, our LRT does have... deadly numbers that, Skytrain for example, doesn't.
Would you be surprised that the families of people killed here in Calgary would find little solace in your assessment that it doesn't hold much water?
Permalink 09/08/10 @ 14:24 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
edoherty [Member]
Robert,
I don't think the idea that surface transit is dangerous holds much water. Automobile dominance makes streets dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. Cost effective transit can save lives by getting more people out of cars more quickly.
Take a look at some of the transit lanes being installed all across Europe, for buses and light rail. Are they causing increased fatalities? Or are they making the streets safer?
Light metros have some significant advantages, but I don't think overall safety is one of them.
I don't think the idea that surface transit is dangerous holds much water. Automobile dominance makes streets dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. Cost effective transit can save lives by getting more people out of cars more quickly.
Take a look at some of the transit lanes being installed all across Europe, for buses and light rail. Are they causing increased fatalities? Or are they making the streets safer?
Light metros have some significant advantages, but I don't think overall safety is one of them.
Permalink 09/08/10 @ 08:55 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
Robert in Calgary [Visitor]
Malcolm, God bless you, numerous knowledgeable people have pointed out the obvious flaws in your BCIT/UBC idea.
It would move less people and be slower doing it. Add in the inevitable collisions and deaths.
"Save money" up front and cost people time, money and aggravation ever day after with an inadequate service. You would end up with the public demanding the line be buried or elevated to save lives, speed up the service and allow the trains to be longer to move more people.
Suddenly, the supposedly "gold-plated" system is actually the better choice.
The key issue is rapid transit and mass transit. It's not the only issue, but it is the key one.
You've had 20+ years to put forth win/win scenarios that involved both LRT and Skytrain working together. You just had to modify your thinking a bit. I think a lot more would have been built if you had.
As much as I love LRT and the way we've make it work in Calgary, more Skytrain lines are still the best choice for the needs of Metro Vancouver.
It would move less people and be slower doing it. Add in the inevitable collisions and deaths.
"Save money" up front and cost people time, money and aggravation ever day after with an inadequate service. You would end up with the public demanding the line be buried or elevated to save lives, speed up the service and allow the trains to be longer to move more people.
Suddenly, the supposedly "gold-plated" system is actually the better choice.
The key issue is rapid transit and mass transit. It's not the only issue, but it is the key one.
You've had 20+ years to put forth win/win scenarios that involved both LRT and Skytrain working together. You just had to modify your thinking a bit. I think a lot more would have been built if you had.
As much as I love LRT and the way we've make it work in Calgary, more Skytrain lines are still the best choice for the needs of Metro Vancouver.
Permalink 09/07/10 @ 18:11 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
Zweisystem [Visitor] · http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2010/09/04/metro-vancouver-pushes-rapid-transit-for-surrey-not
If we build with light rail, we could build both a Vancouver to Chilliwack TramTrain and a BCIT to UBC light rail line for the cost of a small SkyTrain extension.
We have now spent over $8 billion on just three light metro lines, yet the metro system has failed to attract the motorist from the car. If the same $8 billion had been spent on light rail, we would have had the 'rail' network that would attract the all important motorist from the car!
We live in a transit vacuum, where transit planners are cocooned from the realities of workable and usable public transit solutions to our endemic traffic gridlock and congestion.
In just a few weeks, Rail for the Valley will be offering a workable solution which could bring about 140 km of 'rail' transit to the region, for about a 10 km extension on SkyTrain.
Put another way, RftV will be offering a transit solution that would see a Vancouver to Chilliwack TramTrain, BCIT to UBC LRT and a Vancouver to Maple Ridge TramTrain for the cost of the Evergreen Line!
We have now spent over $8 billion on just three light metro lines, yet the metro system has failed to attract the motorist from the car. If the same $8 billion had been spent on light rail, we would have had the 'rail' network that would attract the all important motorist from the car!
We live in a transit vacuum, where transit planners are cocooned from the realities of workable and usable public transit solutions to our endemic traffic gridlock and congestion.
In just a few weeks, Rail for the Valley will be offering a workable solution which could bring about 140 km of 'rail' transit to the region, for about a 10 km extension on SkyTrain.
Put another way, RftV will be offering a transit solution that would see a Vancouver to Chilliwack TramTrain, BCIT to UBC LRT and a Vancouver to Maple Ridge TramTrain for the cost of the Evergreen Line!
Permalink 09/07/10 @ 08:09 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
edoherty [Member]
Except that Richmond council wanted to stay with surface rapid transit and just upgrade to surface rail. Elevated guideways are not the most pleasant things to have in your downtown core.
Permalink 09/06/10 @ 22:12 In response to: Freeway Won't Help Tunnel Congestion and Rapid Transit to UBC 30+ Years Away
bernadette Keenan [Visitor] · http://www.notruckinfreeways.org
In Richmond they put in that surface B-Line bus and then replaced it with Sky train at a later date. That is a good model to follow. Get people habituated to transit with ground service - work out the kinks with ground service too and then as rider ship increases, and the revenue is there, phase in other types of transit, like elevated sky train.
Permalink 09/06/10 @ 21:40 In response to: Hwy 99 Shoulder Bus Lanes Almost Complete - Only cost $4.7 million
voony [Visitor] · http://voony.wordpress.com/
just googling "hwy 99 bus" and end up this page:
It is interesting to compare your picture of a true bus lane, with what the BC governement want you to call a bus lane.
I invite you to check my Sept 1st, 2010 post (click on my name), to see what the "bus lane" look like...and as said
Tom Prendergast: “There's no doubt that motorists will notice how well the bus-only lanes help"
...yes the motorist notice...but I am afraid it draw a different conclusion
It is interesting to compare your picture of a true bus lane, with what the BC governement want you to call a bus lane.
I invite you to check my Sept 1st, 2010 post (click on my name), to see what the "bus lane" look like...and as said
Tom Prendergast: “There's no doubt that motorists will notice how well the bus-only lanes help"
...yes the motorist notice...but I am afraid it draw a different conclusion
Permalink 09/04/10 @ 08:58 In response to: Protest and Concert Halts Highway
NicS [Member]
Great find Eric, here's hoping we will be successful too.
Permalink 08/29/10 @ 20:35 In response to: Protest and Concert Halts Highway
protesters [Visitor]
protests like this might have had something to do with it: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/protesters-attack-town-hall-over-forest-20100729-10xz4.html
Permalink 08/27/10 @ 15:50 In response to: Why Maquarie's P3 Ponzi Scheme is in Trouble - Australian Broadcasting Corp
drey 54tfu [Visitor] · http://www.aiongoldweb.com
vgujh ntuj
Permalink 08/27/10 @ 02:07 In response to: Bus Rapid Transit Hits the Streets of NY: BC Can Do Better
mezzanine [Visitor]
@edoherty:
You omitted the last section of the above post from Jarrett:
"In fact, I'm pretty sure something like this is the cheapest viable way to close the regional network gap, and deserves study only for that reason.
....
I'm not endorsing this option, merely expressing interest in it."
------
And Voony had IMO an apt response:
"Jarret, in http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouvers-broadway-corridor-options-announced.html , you were writing
The most effective rapid transit projects, in ridership terms, are the result of combining many markets, and many constituencies, and many goals, into one service..."
and make us
"Beware of proposals that say we should serve these people and not those" what is exactly this proposal.
but let's examine the cost:
yes it could be cheaper than the Broadway alignment, but like you admit it will not spare us of necessary investment to address the more local market on Broadway.
So the overall cost could not be cheap.
Then though you are certainly right to emphasize the critical importance to complete the Rapid transit grid, one should consider than people get of the rapid transit to connect to a bus too...
and it is where this proposal is weak: besides at Main, it basically doesn't connect to any local buses.
for the reader, major buses node along Broadway is at Granville.
At the end this solution suggest to extend the M line along the Expo line, so not extending at all the rapid transit coverage area, but bringing redundancy on 2 existing stations (Main and Olympic Village) where most of their catchement area is water, limiting their density.
That starts to be lot of pitfall...
Often, "cheap" solution end up to be very expensive""
You omitted the last section of the above post from Jarrett:
"In fact, I'm pretty sure something like this is the cheapest viable way to close the regional network gap, and deserves study only for that reason.
....
I'm not endorsing this option, merely expressing interest in it."
------
And Voony had IMO an apt response:
"Jarret, in http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouvers-broadway-corridor-options-announced.html , you were writing
The most effective rapid transit projects, in ridership terms, are the result of combining many markets, and many constituencies, and many goals, into one service..."
and make us
"Beware of proposals that say we should serve these people and not those" what is exactly this proposal.
but let's examine the cost:
yes it could be cheaper than the Broadway alignment, but like you admit it will not spare us of necessary investment to address the more local market on Broadway.
So the overall cost could not be cheap.
Then though you are certainly right to emphasize the critical importance to complete the Rapid transit grid, one should consider than people get of the rapid transit to connect to a bus too...
and it is where this proposal is weak: besides at Main, it basically doesn't connect to any local buses.
for the reader, major buses node along Broadway is at Granville.
At the end this solution suggest to extend the M line along the Expo line, so not extending at all the rapid transit coverage area, but bringing redundancy on 2 existing stations (Main and Olympic Village) where most of their catchement area is water, limiting their density.
That starts to be lot of pitfall...
Often, "cheap" solution end up to be very expensive""
Permalink 08/26/10 @ 08:15 In response to: Bus Rapid Transit Hits the Streets of NY: BC Can Do Better
edoherty [Member]
mezzanine wrote:
"it would be important to close the rapid transit network gap by extending the m-line at least to broadway-city hall."
mezzanine,
You quoted Jarret Walker for the problem. He has already posted a possible solution that seems to have a lot of merit:
"What is the cheapest possible extension of the Millennium Line that would plug this gap? The answer, I think, is in a comment by "Paul C." Extend the Millennium Line west from the current end-station at VCC-Clark along the existing freight rail right of way parallel to Great Northern Way, possibly transitioning to surface for a bit, if cheaper, and then going underground before Main St. Then, less than 1.5 km of subway under 1st or 2nd will get you to Olympic Village station on the Canada Line,"
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouver-a-cheap-fix-for-the-network-gap.html
"it would be important to close the rapid transit network gap by extending the m-line at least to broadway-city hall."
mezzanine,
You quoted Jarret Walker for the problem. He has already posted a possible solution that seems to have a lot of merit:
"What is the cheapest possible extension of the Millennium Line that would plug this gap? The answer, I think, is in a comment by "Paul C." Extend the Millennium Line west from the current end-station at VCC-Clark along the existing freight rail right of way parallel to Great Northern Way, possibly transitioning to surface for a bit, if cheaper, and then going underground before Main St. Then, less than 1.5 km of subway under 1st or 2nd will get you to Olympic Village station on the Canada Line,"
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouver-a-cheap-fix-for-the-network-gap.html
Permalink 08/25/10 @ 21:40 In response to: Bus Rapid Transit Hits the Streets of NY: BC Can Do Better
Robert in Calgary [Visitor]
Sure Skytrain is more expensive, it's also better.
I'm a big LRT supporter, but, unlike the obsessive fanatics, I don't push LRT as the solution for everything.
I really have to laugh at the idea of an at grade LRT line between Coq. and UBC. If this line had been built, there would be a huge push now to bury it!
As for the Broadway corridor cost being "so daunting", all it takes is the Premier to decide to redirect 2% of the budget, around $800 million per year and pour it into Skytrain construction. That's the most direct method, there's other options.
I'm a big LRT supporter, but, unlike the obsessive fanatics, I don't push LRT as the solution for everything.
I really have to laugh at the idea of an at grade LRT line between Coq. and UBC. If this line had been built, there would be a huge push now to bury it!
As for the Broadway corridor cost being "so daunting", all it takes is the Premier to decide to redirect 2% of the budget, around $800 million per year and pour it into Skytrain construction. That's the most direct method, there's other options.
Permalink 08/25/10 @ 19:15 In response to: Bus Rapid Transit Hits the Streets of NY: BC Can Do Better
mezzanine [Visitor]
One would also think that it would be important to close the rapid transit network gap by extending the m-line at least to broadway-city hall.
"The single largest flaw in the whole region's rapid transit network is the lack of connection between the Millennium and Canada Lines.
...
It's a really nasty gap. It means that riders from anywhere on the segment where the yellow Millennium Line runs alone, i.e. in northern Burnaby or Coquitlam, are not just one connection away from downtown Vancouver, but is TWO connections away from Richmond or the Airport."
-jarrett walker, human transit
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouvers-broadway-corridor-options-announced.html
although i can see BRT as an option for a link from arbutus skytrain to UBC. in the even nearer term, i would like to see brt in surrey to start to build ridership.
"The single largest flaw in the whole region's rapid transit network is the lack of connection between the Millennium and Canada Lines.
...
It's a really nasty gap. It means that riders from anywhere on the segment where the yellow Millennium Line runs alone, i.e. in northern Burnaby or Coquitlam, are not just one connection away from downtown Vancouver, but is TWO connections away from Richmond or the Airport."
-jarrett walker, human transit
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/vancouvers-broadway-corridor-options-announced.html
although i can see BRT as an option for a link from arbutus skytrain to UBC. in the even nearer term, i would like to see brt in surrey to start to build ridership.
Permalink 08/24/10 @ 23:09 In response to: Bus Rapid Transit Hits the Streets of NY: BC Can Do Better
edoherty [Member]
Corey,
I am going to post and reply to your comment at http://thecanadian.org/k2/item/226-doherty-bus-rapid-transit
There are already four comments there and it is easier to keep all in one place.
I am going to post and reply to your comment at http://thecanadian.org/k2/item/226-doherty-bus-rapid-transit
There are already four comments there and it is easier to keep all in one place.
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